And if the thousands of baptisms represent thousands of people coming to Christ, how could one not rejoice? Now of course the labourer is worthy of his hire, and it is not a sin to be rich. Elevation Church's revival is seeing some theological controversy. David, you seem so eager to fire off your stock answers and insults that it sometimes appears that you havent properly read the comments first. We stray from scripture at out peril: http://www.whatisthegospel.org.uk. So issuing a challenge to either support them or decry them is meaningless. Last year, when far-reaching government restrictions were put in place, the megachurch continued holding indoor worship services despite bans on such gatherings. Well, given that many years ago I encouraged one of our young people to complete his studies at Spurgeons College and accept an internship at First Dallas Baptist, it would have to be that one. That would indeed be ridiculous, but it is not my position and it is therefore wrong of you to argue as though it were. Yes, some of it is biblical and Furtick is a good communicator, amusing, connected etc.but a great deal appears to pay only passing lip service to the Bible. [11] From 1966 to 1969, MacArthur was hired as the faculty representative for Talbot Theological Seminary. "[34] Regarding eternal security, he states, "It should never be presented merely as a matter of being once saved, always savedwith no regard for what you believe or do. So Mike Riccardi is going to be answering the call," a Grace Community Church elder announced on Sunday, according to Christian website Protestia. There is nothing that makes me believe in God and the Gospel more than the church in all its beauty, and there is nothing makes me doubt more than the church in all its ugliness. But cant we all recognize how difficult we find that? Were deeply grateful for that. Period. Just to settle this bit of your disagreement: http://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Calvinists-ES-Williams/dp/1908919329/, Wonderful thanksnow I can read it on my KindleI have no idea why that did not show on my Amazon page. 4) Wrong on all counts. It is the Bible watered down by a mixture of Waltonesque homespun wisdom, pop psychology, stand up comedy and an unhealthy doze of how to missiology. I have a suspicion that much of the health and wealth teaching which is plaguing much of the church in Africa, Asia and South America is primarily an export from the US, with perhaps a little help from Europe, (all in the name of spreading the gospel). 3) Yes you did engage in gossip writing about a child sex scandal without context.you may not see it as such. In John MacArthur's book, "The Truth War" he writes that " Churches today are filled with people like that. On February 9, 1969, he was hired as the third and youngest pastor at the nondenominational Grace Community Church of Sun Valley, California. Despite concern from church members, Grace Community Church has assured the public that MacArthur is recovering and doing better. See what mine own hands have wrought. Cool name, cool Church I knew that it was one of the fastest growing mega churches in the USA, and had heard a little of its pastor, the dynamic Stephen Furtick. And it's thewe call it the Shepherd's Testament; it has a little shepherd's rod on the front. I stated that the danger comes from false teachers AND from those who allow the word of God to be compromised by turning a blind eye. It demonstrates a mindset that says this is MY church. Opinion Page Brooks and David Bumgardner If we believe that the message in our books is from God, and we feel it so strongly, then we dont really need to promote it, do we? These views raised controversy within American evangelicalism and were challenged in print by non-lordship dispensationalist theologians Charles Ryrie and Zane C. Hodges, who argued that MacArthur's ministry was teaching a form of works-based salvation. I know in theory you agree with He must increase, I must decrease as do I. Powered and implemented by FactSet Digital Solutions. He has been the pastor-teacher of Grace . MacArthur told church members ahead of his sermon that many people contracted COVID and it probably went through our church in maybe December or January. The pastor said he and his wife, Patricia, enjoyed our own bout with COVID for about a week and a half.. In 1960, after a year off, he was accepted to the Free Methodist Churchs Los Angeles Pacific College, where in his senior year he observed two games of football, going on field once for one play (see 1962 yearbook statistics). John MacArthur - Jr. Church and Steven Furtick Jamie A 154 subscribers Subscribe 214K views 7 years ago Fun little clips I put together to give an example of what Dr. MacArthur was speaking on.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbfoO6hMSLc. One expression of faith creates refugees; the other resettles them. Pastor John MacArthur on Sunday commended GraceLife Church in Alberta, Canada, which is meeting in secret after the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) barricaded their building behind three layers of chain link fence. It all depends how you measure success! And if you want to learn of the dangers of this movement I would recommend that you read The New Calvinists: Changing The Gospel by E S Williams. Timothy Nerozzi is a writer for Fox News Digital. The elders had publicly disciplined a woman for refusing . However the issue that really gets to me is the money one. I am happy though if you wish to withdraw your initial comments. But like John Flavel I regard as a pretty close second the threat of disunity in the body of Christ not least that caused by those who go around unjustly and wrongly accusing others of false teaching. In 1969, after graduating from Talbot Theological Seminary, John came to Grace Community Church. MacArthur denied the charge, as attested on two tapes recorded in 1989 when he was asked to reason together with the IFCA man.[35], MacArthur advocates Young Earth creationism in his book The Battle For the Beginning (2001), and in his sermons. Given that is neither what I wrote, nor what I think. To ignore its message is to snub that which the Holy Spirit inspired. Again as an author who is tempted to mention or quote from my couple of books in every sermon, I sympathise. John MacArthur is the pastor-teacher of Grace Community Church, as well as an author, conference speaker, chancellor of The Master's University and Seminary, and featured teacher with the Grace to You media ministry. I dont know enough about Elevation to make that kind of judgment, but there are warning signs. Legal Statement. Your endorsement of Williams book which I have now read is indicative of that. We are committed to delivering quality independent Christian journalism you can trust. I think it is a good thing that a church grows within a decade from a hundred to 20,000 people and I would love that to happen in Dundee, or Edinburgh. More here: https://mrayton.wordpress.com/tag/john-macarthur/, Thanks very helpfulalthough I think that the money and the me focus are a key part of the false teaching. I replied tongue in cheek and its unfortunate my smiley emo didnt indicate that. Thats hypocrisy, and no, that doesnt constitute name calling. Your email address will not be published. Someone feels free to go on the internet post serious accusations and then refuse to substantiate them. As so often in the church, sex, money and power are the real problems for many because they are the idols of our hearts. Some are good, some are bad. Terribly, the younger folks dont appear to have the foundation in the word to smell it out. I d not think there is any man alive especially a young man who could cope with this degree of adulation and not have his head explode with pride. 2) Its also not advisable as someone who professes to be a Christian and follow Christ to swear. And not only do they become idlers, but also busybodies who talk nonsense, saying things they ought not to. Im afraid I have had more than enough of this kind of depressing legalism and self-righteousness pride(and before you jump in yes I admit I can all too easily be the same).. At the risk of over-blogging (I dont want to be a bore), have you seen this just the introduction. Why do you think that that was disgraceful etc but G Whites bracketing of Furtick with Chandler was not? (You can read the follow up five years later! But, thank God, I have been able to study the bible for 50 years and, although I acknowledge that I have probably only scratched the surface of the riches of His grace, I do not recognise Furticks message as balanced and biblical. From 20052015, MacArthur made about $3.4 million in compensation from GTY and TMUS, for an average of about $320,000/year. If you are going to reply that something is pathetic can I suggest you avoid capitalising everything. MacArthur 12 having been Jul 25, 2017 - Explore Rhonda Johnson's board "Elevation Church", followed . Someone made a sermon jam of it which I posted on my FB page and all of us, who were not of a charismatic background, really had no idea what he was saying. On top of that, MacArthur also took a salary from Grace Community Church that was "well within the upper-medium range" for California church employees, according to Johnson's 2014 statement. He argues that "the battle for the beginning is ultimately a battle between two mutually exclusive faiths faith in Scripture versus faith in anti-theistic hypotheses. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. I think putting Chandler in the same category as Furtick is disgraceful and totally unwarranted and thus simply ask G White to justify that. Is this success? One such person who has joined the ranks of GTY is Cameron Buettel, author . Googling information about his ministry will provide a number of discussions of his content. Can I assume that you are now withdrawing the remark about Matt Chandler not being a good example of how the gospel should be preached and lived? I dont agree that its always wrong to mock (otherwise Elijah, Paul and Jesus were wrong), and indeed sometimes mockery has its place. [20] The event featured a number of speakers who argued for cessationist theology and strongly critiqued the Charismatic Movement. An unknown man clad in black confronted Grace Community Church pastor John MacArthur during service on Sunday, Aug. av. You Wouldnt Be Dashing Him And Family And God House Stop being jealous Stop Counting The Heads In The Church And Start Counting Youre Blessing We Still Have A universe To Stand On And spreading the message good God And Getting People Ready For Whats About To Come..Btw Are You Ready For When God Comes? [36] Speaking about evolutionary theory, he writes that Christians "ought to expose such lies for what they are and oppose them vigorously." He also read a heartfelt letter that the church's pastor sent to MacArthur's congregation. Ironically tu quoque was what you were using about Chandler (as well as ad hom). Anyone at least you have persuaded me to read the book I hope it is not a waste of good time! All rights reserved. 4) Yes my point about the megachurches was that they were not per se bad. This photo posted to Twitter by Phil Johnson shows a full sanctuary at Grace Church on Sunday, July 26, 2020. Matt. John Fullerton MacArthur Jr. (born June 19, 1939) is an American Protestant pastor and author known for his internationally syndicated Christian teaching radio and television program Grace to You. It just looks weird. (What a great sales pitch why dont you try it next time David I will even make the trip to Dundee to hear you). And if you do wish to engage here, I would find it helpful if you answered my questions and stick to the point otherwise such threads just become a string of accusations. 3. His message contained enough truth to make it seem plausible, but at heart it was man-centered. Why do you think I should apologise for my Amazon remarks (which were simply that I could only find it on my Amazon feed at 30)? Rather than ignoring these churches and individuals Scotlands born again believers need to stand up and contend for the faith. Then you will remember your evil ways and your wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices. We even had the background high pitched sentimental organ music towards the end as he told the (with a tear in his eye) the sad story of his dad, especially when he turned up to hear his son preach for 24 hours to mark the publication of his latest book. They drift from church to church. The preacher's admission came amid news that Grace Community Church in Sun Valley received an $800,000 settlement from Los Angeles County after defying pandemic-induced health orders. You then go to the other extreme and say that I am lumping every mega church together. He was unable to preach the second service. It is wonderful stuff Matt and Tim Keller are two mega church US pastors who I listen to every week! If he has lots of money good for him, if he has a nice home- good for him. John MacArthur is pastor of Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California. This is what I mean by legalism in my original post. The Bad Sadly, whilst every church has the bad, because we are all sinners and therefore infect any structure or organization we are part of, there are sometimes churches that go much further and wander away to the extent that one can hardly call them a church at all. You call them out or call them to repentance but see no need to repent yourself. When you are ready argue about what is being said here, not what is not being said. But to me that is clear what it is. I found helpful most of what he said and disagreed with a few things. This is a really long post that deals almost exclusively, unfortunately, with secondary issues (church size, communications gifts, me focus, salary, wealth, size of house, and more) and thereby obscures the central and clarifying point of Furticks ministry. Sitting in a restaurant in Charleston, North Carolina, we were delighted to meet a group of four men, who included a young man from the UK, who was working for a church called Elevation in Charlotte. Firstly in the teaching. Your other comments were directly applied to the Megachurch movement I follow the goings-on of the mega church para church neocalvinist movement (call it what you will) in the USA and am frequently astounded by their antics. Again I am glad that you were not criticising the whole mega church movement (although I am sure you will understand why your initial post can be read that way).which megachurches are you happy with? Here is Kate Shellnut: Last year, Hohn Cho concluded Grace Community Church had made a mistake. I can write the e-mails. rm. The reality is that you have a bunch of people who want pastors to be poor while they make fortunes off of fake news. Its wrong to mock and you should try to win them over without mockery. 2. I repeat again that I am aware of the failings of the mega church system and celebrity pastors. Whether this ministry attracted 2 or 2 million is irrelevant the ministry is identified simply by its content as false and shunned. Citing Dallas Baptist because you knew a young man who went there. Do you still endorse it? I surrendered to a calling of God. When asked why he marketed his book (or to be more accurate why the church paid thousands to market his book), he was unapologetic, if he didnt believe the message he wouldnt market it. Williams has more than misgivings about neo-Calvinism (as he calls it to call Piper, Keller and the Proclamation Trust neo-Calvinists is just silly). Doubtless it was intended as a joke but I dont think taking a salary of millions more than is necessary to live, work and provide for ones family, is a joke especially when there are hungry children, and many hungry for the Word, who do not receive it because of lack of money. Surely there are members in the congregations of the mega churches who intend to be sincere, and big doesnt have to be bad. by RELEVANT. 5) Yes the legalism one still stands. Last summer I had the privilege to attend and worship at an Acts 29 church plant in Shepherds Bush, and I pray that God would plant more churches like it across the UK. 1. And also trying to get to know what God says in His Word and please stop shouting at those you know nothing about. David, you try very hard to always get the last word and I knew that the question you asked was loaded. I made no comment on how Matt Chandler lives as a Christian. I fail to see where the legalism is in any of my comments. The preachers admission came amid news that Grace Community Church in Sun Valleyreceived an $800,000 settlement from Los Angeles County after defying pandemic-induced health orders. Please dont feel sad that someone disagrees with you. The Good Contrary to expectations I am not one of those Calvinist ministers who automatically discounts any church which grows beyond a couple of hundred, as being a mega fake, doctrinally incorrect, pseudo church. I was not picking on one church: you offered Matt Chandler as an example of how mega churches get it right and I was replying to that by urging caution. From 1964 to 1966, MacArthur was hired by his father as associate pastor at the Harry MacArthur Memorial Bible Church (now Calvary Bible Church in Burbank, California), which his father Jack had planted and named after his own father. . Theres clearly no transparency or accountability at Elevation Church! If you stop and think about what you have written you will I hope grasp what is wrong with it. When searching for churches outside of the United States, please search using city, country. [3] MacArthur has written or edited more than 150 books, most notably the MacArthur Study Bible, which has sold more than one million copies, receiving a Gold Medallion Book Award. Its a sad fact that this nonsense is already here in Scotland supported by the new breed of self appointed apostles and prophets. Stephen Furtick is his own brand and it seems it is a brand that sells well and pays well. In your second post you again make the false claim that I set Dallas against Chandler. Hell is not something to be used as a curse word it is real. I have no idea if you are particularly legalistic or not but the type of comments you were making, most certainly are. As for the scandal yes I was aware of it. Also available on most smart TVs and streaming services. LOS ANGELES PASTOR JOHN MACARTHUR PUBLICLY REBUKES GAVIN NEWSOM FOR 'DIABOLICAL' POLICIES, INVOKING JESUS, Pastor John MacArthur preaches at Grace Community Church in Los Angeles. Thanks for this. But it takes a lot of hard work, time, and money to do what we do. Finally, you make the extremely serious accusation that I have caused disunity in the body of Christ by calling Matt Chandler a false teacher and by comparing him with Scott McKenna; both accusations are totally false and completely unacceptable. A point you also mentioned. And lets talk about finance. [1] He has been the pastor of Grace Community Church, a non-denominational church in Sun Valley, California since February 9, 1969. He picked out three words from Joshua 10, 12 (Sun stand still) and turned them into a doctrine, and he peppered his performance with occasional biblical quotes to back it up. Wendy Guay's friend, Lisa Ward, was a witness to an attempted abuse by Paul against herself and his own daughter back in 1979. Either way the theory that a pastor should be poor is ignorant. Elevation Church were accused of getting 'volunteers' to come forward during the 'spontaneous' baptism services, in order to encourage others to get up out of their seats. John Fullerton MacArthur Jr. (born June 19, 1939) is an American pastor and author known for his internationally syndicated radio program Grace to You. Very pleased with the approval of an $800,000 settlement and total win for my clients, @johnmacarthur and @GraceComChurch, on behalf of @ThomasMoreSoc. Has First Dallas never handled any controversy or discipline case wrong? John MacArthur, senior pastor of Grace Community Church in Los Angeles and founder of his ministry Grace to You, was one of the reported 4,000 pastors who preached last Sunday against. He's got a long history as a respected evangelical theologian and preacher, but has made headlines more often in recent months for illegally flouting COVID-19 . Why not just simply deal with the facts, and leave the name calling aside? As for your other points, Matt Chandlers church eventually acted only after a number of Christian magazines and websites had highlighted their initial inaction. I live maybe two hours from the Village and have visited twice. I will reply to them briefly. The entire message was based around how God can meet all MY needs. Not on Amazon it aint! 2023 FOX News Network, LLC. As it happens I was sent this video by someone who was praising it.it is more like a political rally (complete with clapping) than a Christian sermon the misuse of Scripture about borders is bad enough but the approving citation of Donald Trump Is it time to start bombing the you know what out of ISIS (that is a biblical response) was appalling. New Artificial Intelligence Program ChatGPT Generates Concern: A Liberal Bias? My own view is that he didnt handle it particularly well even when forced to act. Jenna . Im afraid that the influence of the US mega churches such as Elevation is felt throughout the world.
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